hellfire or sub schorcher

[sunny]

Has any one surfed both boards if so can you help me descide between the two boards. I have surfed 6'0 hellfire and thought it was a good board but was a bit chunky, was thinking the 5'10 would be better? I love the look of the sub but dont know any one who has surfed it, Iwant the board to cover variaty of waves at local breaks (East coast England) slow to punchy beach breaks and the odd point break when they work. I do have a6'2 alt round tail, i have owned a few firewire boards; sweet potato,el feugo ,dom and futura so familiar with the tech. I have placed a order months ago for taj custom in the hope of getting it for my Mentawai trip in April (looking like i might not see that board before i go which i was suprised ordering it so early...... but thats another story) I have read threads on the sub and hellfire both sing each ones praises so if anyone could help me descide between the two would be great help.

[kdropin]

see sub scorcher thread.. and you can check the old forum about prjwebb 5'8 that he's rocking.. him and chris seem to have a pretty good feel for it.. i'm debating the same issue.. it driving me nuts! 5'8 or 5'10 5'8 or 5'10!???????

[sunny]

Thanks kdropin i have read pretty much every thread on the old site about each board, but have yet to read about anybody who has surfed both boards to compare the two, it seems like both have very good reports individualy. I was looking for comparison like which paddles better? which is better in the good surf? or better still which is going to be the one to take to the mentawai's? As for which size the 5'10 in both models should be a good fit. At 5'11 and 90kg, and should hopefully be less before i go (i have a marathon to run 7 days before i go - ha ha). I have surfed the 6'0 hellfire, and thought it was a great board, could paddle on to anything that was in 5mm suit, boots, gloves and hood, so in a pair of board shorts at fighting weight should be ok on 5'10. Wish i could try the sub before buying! Although i liked the hellfire the sub keeps calling to me?!

[prjwebb]

I think the HF might excel is better waves, due to the bottom contours, although the Sub is a little narrower at the widest point and a little more knifey through the tail. I think the HF has a thicker tail more like the Spitfire, but I guess with the step rail and 90kg pushing it a little meat in the tail isn't going to be a problem.
I think the rockers will be your deciding point. I'd want the one with more rocker in Mentawai waves.

[Chris]

Yeah the Hellfire feels a bit more like a hybrid. Its got a little more width throughout and rides a bit more like a hybrid while the sub was born from a shortboard template and rides a bit more like a shortboard.

The other thing to remember about the hellfire is that it has a relatively pronounced double concave. This helps with loosening up the board and making it more maneuverable, but its slightly different than a standard short board. The board goes rail to rail really well and feels more maneuverable than you would expect. So essentially you have a tricked out hybrid and the double concave adds a new element to the already proven template of the hellfire.

[sunny]

Thanks for your replys, does the sub have a little more rocker then hellfire? looks like it has a little more kick in the tail?

[prjwebb]

I'm not too sure about the rocker differences, Chris might be able to get you some numbers. The Sub has a pretty low entry rocker which makes it paddle well and get through flatter sections, but it has just enough nose flip to keep the nose up when conditions get steeper. It's fairly low on the tail rocker too but has a bit of kick right out the end that lets it fit nice in the pocket and keep it really loose. Here's a rocker shot of the Sub for you.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y8/surfingsfun/IMG_0389.jpg
I'm not too sure about the Hellfire's rocker, maybe someone can post a shot of the Hellfire in the same position.

[core personal training]

thats looking more than the 510 hf...i'll click off a pic in the morning to compare...going dark here now and my camera is crap in low light...btw...i'm 90kg on the 510 hellfire...if your fit and can surf it is FUN...

heres a quicky..will set up like phills tomorrow80

[Chris]

Here is the other thing about the sub scorcher that i would add. The sub is a good small wave board, period. I think you want to ride this board short because its a really flat and wide SHORTBOARD. When you ride it longer it feels too full and stops working like a SHORTBOARD. Because you ride it shorter, you kind of want to keep it in smaller waves, tight pockets, etc.

The hellfire, to me, can be ridden in a wider range of conditions and has high performance hybrid characteristics that allow the board to work well in smaller surf and bigger surf. Lets say you had slightly over head surf, pretty fast and you were looking at either the hellfire or sub scorcher. In surf that size I would want a 510 sub scorcher and a 510 Hellfire. The 510 sub, however has too much volume and I would have a hard time getting the tail to bite. With the double concave and chime rail of the Hellfire, however, I would have an easier time drawing deep off the bottom and hooking the board with speed. That is my take.

Cheers

[prjwebb]

That's really good insight actually Chris.

[Chris]

dannnnng son, thanks... HA

[sunny]

Thanks for all your advice it looks like its the hellfire then,will let you know how i get on cheers.

[core personal training]

overcast this morning...old camera's pic too grainy...try again in an hour when more sunny, sunny.!

[prjwebb]

What do you mean it's not sunny Dave!

[core personal training]

freezing here...(20deg c)...heres pic of both..tried to line it up...87

[iggy]

jajajaj when I saw the 20 I thought it was fahrenheit!!!!!

[iggy]

although you get some pretty cold currents from the pole!

[core personal training]

NOT THAT COLD...!!!... notice Toms greedy hands in the pic grabbing my hellfire...according to him, its HIS board when i get the hellrazor or whatever new creation our leader tells me to ride...!!.. damn grommets....!

[Fritzkat]

Chris...510 Michel Bourez? is that the double bat winged pintail seen in the video from Japan? What would be your take on the transition from a Hell fire to a Michel Bourez, if they make them in 6-4ish.

[prjwebb]

The MB board is Michel's pro model. It's based off of Taj's board but is a bit thicker and wider to accommodate Michel's power surfing.

[kdropin]

whens the word coming out on all the new models? any time frame yet?

[Chris]

i can say this we have new models releasing in a couple months and will be announcing them in the coming weeks....stay tuned....

getting close...

[kdropin]

i can say this we have new models releasing in a couple months and will be announcing them in the coming weeks....stay tuned....

getting close...

finally! then i can really get down to business and choose a board. will you guys be releasing all the new boards for 2012 in a couple weeks?

[Chris]

Hey by release its going to be announcements with delivery dates....obviously there is a slight lag between announcement and delivery...but once announced you will be able to place orders with dealers.

and there will be some later winter early spring and some late spring early summer.....kind of first half....

[norberg]

How does the HF compare to the Sub in gutless onshore waves. I am looking at getting the Sub in the right size, but can't get it where I live.

Would the HF work well in crappy waves as well or is it more suited towards cleaner waves?

[prjwebb]

From the sounds of it the HF is more suited to better waves whereas the SS handles crapper days well.

[Chris]

Hey guys i think both boards would work well in the smaller surf and on shore conditions. Keep in mind the Hellfire can be ridden as a quad which can be really fun on wind swelly days and is an easy way to increase speed without searching out a different break or getting a new board.

[pudzeeboy]

Hellfire if it gets a sucky and breaks/dumps quickly the nose rocker in the hellfire will beat the Sub Scorcher hands down. like chris says it also works well in in smaller windy days with the quad set up, but if its a crumbly fatter wave then the sub scorcher is prob the better choice with the low entry rocker and thicker rails, personally the Hellfire every time!!

[Chris]

yeah you kind of want to do your best to isolate what the most common conditions are that you surf in. Then base your choice based on STATS!!

nothing better than over crunching numbers!

[prjwebb]

I like crunching cereal!

[Chris]

that is tastier...

[norberg]

Thanks guys for all the feedback. Its hard to choose here, but will most likely get the Sub Scorcher. Wil use it in flatter, gutless, onshore waves 90% of the time so guess the 6'2 will gives me a bit more volume and should go great.

Have read so much good feedback on the Hellfire so will probably end up buying that one as well. Arg. Ha ha

[prjwebb]

You'll love the Sub. It's been my go to board for all conditions all winter. So much fun. The only time it feels out of its comfort zone is in dredgey, sucky take offs.
I too find myself eyeing the Hellfire and HellRazor though.