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  • #16
    One of the things i remember most about riding the 5'10 Hellfire and the 5'11 Hellrazor is the grovel ability
    In smaller waves i had trouble getting the Hellfire up to speed whereas the Razor seemed a lot quicker off the mark and a lot snappier off the top
    Performance wise the Razors tail/rail seemed to offer some good bite on sucky take offs and good hold in the barrel whereas the bigger rail on the Hellfire seemed a bit boxy
    Yeah as you mentioned thinner tail means you can bury it easier (unless your Tom Carroll)
    Mind you when the waves had some power the speed the Hellfire offered was awesome to say the least
    The Razor i tried out had also less volume but with the wider surface area 19 1/4 i had no problem with paddling
    The 5'7 shouldnt be a problem at all
    Last edited by Wandi; 10-31-2012, 06:45 PM.

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    • #17
      Wandi, thanks for the quick reply.
      I can relate to what you say about getting the Hellfire up to speed in smaller waves. Do you think the Razor getting up to speed quicker had to do with the flatter concave?
      I am still trying to understand the performance effects of a double concave vs a flatter concave.
      You're right that when the waves have some power the Hellfire gets up and goes...I am assuming you felt the same or more with the Razor?
      I am most concerned about making sure I don't bite off too much with volume and the thickness of the Razor is 2-1/16 vs 2-3/8 of the Hellfire. Do you think 2-1/16 thick will be too little for someone of my weight?
      I want to push my surfing yet still be able to catch waves when its waist high and generate speed.

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      • #18
        dont ride the hf too big....if a 5'11 razor works, then a 510 hf is too big..........unless your talking about longboards, more volume can just hold you back....you have to keep your boards light and nimble underfoot....

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        • #19
          Hey Core, thanks for the input.
          I don't think my 5'6 HF is necessarily too big as it's in my range on the Volume Calculator. However, I have been working down in volume as my surfing has progressed and I believe I am very close to the proper volume for my weight and what I want my surfing to progress to. Unfortunately, it seems like at some point you just have to thrown $700 on a new board to figure it out especially in the smaller sizes to see what it feels like.
          My biggest concern is that going down another 1.8L may be too much and I will struggle on weaker waves...just not sure??? The 5'9 Razor I rode floated me killer and I got into plenty of smaller gutless waves but the board just felt too long.
          Also, 2-1/16 thick seems mighty thin on paper but when I put the 5'7 Razor under my arm it feels good.
          I like what you said..."light and nimble underfoot"....and don't know if I have truly felt that yet. My 5'6 HF has got me close but something is telling me to try slightly less volume...it's just an expensive way to find out.
          Can you shed any light on double concave (HF) vs flatter concave (HR)?
          Last edited by delmarsurfer; 11-02-2012, 10:25 AM.

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          • #20
            hey Del...yeah your hf is fine....i meant that wandi's is possibly too big and that may cause his trouble getting going.... i've lost a few kilos and now have issues getting my MB going.. (not light and nimble now so cant do quick lightfooted articulations to build speed for more deliberate turns)...

            the razor feeling "long" is probably from riding your nice little hf... i feel this when jumping back to normal lengths too...and now i'm old and decrepit, am kooking a bit (or lot) while tuning back in to the rail length... but there should be a few inches between the hf and razor (which should be closer to your "normal" shorty)... it's going to depend on how "perfect" your hellfire sizing is...

            to over-generalize, the concaves provide lift and get the water around/through a curve (your center line rocker) and the splitting into doubles among other things gets you rail to rail (twitchy)... you back it off as you ride waves that provide their own speed and power... there's other factors that dictate whats needed under there but thats for Nev... i'm outta my depth at that point... i just nod with my eyes glazed over and say "whatever you think is best sir"...

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            • #21
              Yeah the Hellfire probably was a bit too big
              I remember the salesman wanted to put me on a 6'0
              Another trial and error board
              I guess thats why the Demo boards are so beneficial
              Really glad i had a chance to demo the Hellrazor
              i think i might bite the bullet and grab one

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              • #22
                hey core - great response! Thanks.
                wandi rode a 5'10 HF and demo'd a 5'11 Razor...this would be the exact same in proportion to me riding my 5'6 HF and contemplating a 5'7 Razor. Again, I have been working my way down in size and volume as my skills have progressed and maybe my 5'6 HF is slightly on the high end of volume especially if I go with a 5'7 Razor. Like you said there should be a couple of inches between my HF and HR.
                This is all new to me so I am trying to get my brain around it and what it feels like to have the best volumed board for me and be "light and nimble under foot."
                What does that feel/surf like?

                I feel like I have progressed very well on my Hellfire, which I have only had for about 2 months, and maybe it's time to push my surfing a little more with less volume and a bit more performance oriented board.
                My previous board was a 5'6 Spitfire (28.3L) and obviously had too much volume but going down to the 5'6 HF (24.5L) was a relatively easy transition.
                I am wondering if the transition down to a 5'7 Razor (22.7L) will be as easy while still catching plenty of waves in the thigh to head high range? My goal is to progress my surfing and given my height and weight it seems like the 5'7 Razor could be a very good option. Thoughts?

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                • #23
                  I think my fitness levels also had a great deal with me growing out of the Hellfire 5'10 as well
                  At the time of purchase it actually felt like a perfect and comfortable fit but during the last year or so i have stepped up my fitness levels
                  Spurred from a conversation with a portugese friend
                  He asked me what i did to prepare for surf if i was going to be out of the water for a week or so
                  I think my reply was watching surf vids ha ha
                  As expected levels of expertise rise when fitness levels increase as well as dropping board volumes
                  So i think to answer your question you have to ask yourself if your going to be comfortable and are your fitness levels up to riding a low volume board
                  If yes then there is no reason why not. Its good to push your surfing every now and then

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                  • #24
                    "light and nimble under foot."
                    What does that feel/surf like?.......


                    by light and nimble i mean you can articulate your board and also set rails without having to get your whole weight over the part of board your pushing...that would take too long on every movement if your trying to surf fast and loose like sl8ter......you should be able to move around with your feet/ankles/toes, not need whole body weight and thigh strength for even small corrections.....an example of me at the moment on the MB is with the weight drop i'm not able to take off deep and steep on my forehand very well.... my rear toes dont seem to have the strength to immediately dig my rail in and drive...i have to get up, stick my toes over the rail and lean into it....by this time i should already be over on my heels into the next pump...this usually means missing the section, getting through too late to belt it or just wiping out like a kook....i even had trouble doing this on my HF yesterday..(went out light, empty stomach and only wearing budgie smugglers for further lightness..!!)... also noticed too much resistance pushing back under my front foot/nose of board...thats like having the hand-brake on..!!....now, it's not just a weight issue....a trim guy with huge low slung calves and feet like a hobbit wont have as much trouble...myself on the other hand, have puny little high calves like a Kenyan marathon runner... without the weight assistance to overpower the board, i'm finding out just how weak my lower legs are....(off for a soft sand run followed by calf raises with the wife on my shoulders..!)..

                    waffled a lot there trying to illustrate the "feel", and the causes.....hope it came accross okay....

                    hard to pinpoint the volume you need in different boards at your weight...not much experience down that end of the scales..!!.. also your height/leverage and as we now understand, your leg strength..... maybe the bantam weights on the forum can "weigh" in here........see what i did there.... "weigh" in... i made a funny...!!!!

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                    • #25
                      Wow, I just learned a lot from this one single post.

                      Nice one Core, thanks man.

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                      • #26
                        I thought it was actually called 'Carving' a turn but now Core has enlightened us, I think maybe it should be called 'Calving' a turn! Nice explanation Core, made sense of stuff that happens without having to think about it now after 46 years of repetition. My calves have fallen with age and are now actually under the soles of my feet. Attachment 'Calving' a top turn, Central Atolls Maldives, May 2012, Hellfire 6/4. Shapers Quad E fronts, FCS carbon M7 rear, Thruster config.
                        Attached Files
                        Last edited by Piha Local; 11-10-2012, 05:49 PM.

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                        • #27
                          Well, not to give weird advice or anything, but due to the nature of my very high arches and having had flip flops at work every day on concrete floors, I had to break down and get shoes with arch support.

                          I chose MBTs which are known to give ladies that nicely shaped toush. However what they have given me were calves.

                          So we are around the same age group-ish, give or take a decade :)

                          I would suggest MBTs as your daily work shoe, benefits will be reaped.

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                          • #28
                            aurf....my toush could do with reshaping....its down the same place as piha's calves....

                            piha....good to see you on the red wine again mate....!!!!..... oh, and nice backhand spray....yeeeewwwwwww

                            i only thought about what normally happens automatically because it wasnt happening automatically anymore...thought losing weight would be a help....turns out, without the weight, i dont have the power i thought i did..... oh well, back on the pies..!!
                            Last edited by core personal training; 11-11-2012, 01:05 PM. Reason: kant spel goode

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                            • #29
                              Attachment
                              Meat Pie and Red Wine assisted bottom turn. Inside Mikados, Central Atolls, Maldives. [61 year old calves in going condition[just!]

                              "[i only thought about what normally happens automatically because it wasnt happening automatically anymore..[/QUOTE]" Core.

                              Yep Core, that is the way of all flesh, and eventually I guess it will lead us all down that soggy well worn path to Viagra!

                              And yes again, Shot In The Dark Shiraz/Petite Sirah 2008, very nice drop from your very own NSW area.

                              Aurf-- that is weird advice indeed buddy--- I've heard it starts first with wearing women's shoes, then next comes the dresses and then the under---- think I'd better stop now.
                              Attached Files
                              Last edited by Piha Local; 11-11-2012, 07:23 PM.

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                              • #30
                                Thanks for the introspective Piha.

                                I was just about to put on my wifes mini.

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