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  • #16
    Love an experiment. But hey let me check. Have 3 FST's, 7 polyester but wait. My 2 rapidfire have.....self destructed and yet they were my 2 latest purchases. Strange that. So can't try that one. But wait. What if FireWire were to video that and post it for us punters to belay our feelings of being ripped off

    Comment


    • #17
      I've been surfing for 35 years in all conditions and I have never seen a board snap the same way my Vanguard did.There are others posting pictures of VG's snapping in almost the same way. On top of that there is a published review in which the tester cracks the board during a demo session. Even the repair shop I took my board to stated they were seeing a lot of VG's coming in for repair. I don't have experience with any other rapid fire boards but I do believe the amount of Vanguards snapping indicates that there is an issue with these boards that needs to be addressed.

      Comment


      • #18
        lets put some perspective back in.. or try anyway.. maybe the doubters who state there is a significant problem have their hands on more facts than i do.... its possible...........

        firewire have done a better test... they made a squillion boards (approx figure), with a very small percentage breaking... pick any model from channel islands or js with heavier glass jobs and find out the break percentage..(not to mention degradation) ..

        as for repairers... i know the firewire repairer (among others) for a significant portion of the nsw oz coast.(the part with many of the heavy dodgy and big wave spots)... i see the repairs going in... we were talking vanguards only two weeks ago... no specific problem, or any r/f for that matter .. but i already knew that...

        remember, firewire is the ONLY manufacturer who replaces dud boards... if there was a problem with the boards in general then they would be out of business..

        if a punter wants to feel ripped off, take a snapped p/u board back to any other manufacturer and see what happens...even if it has an obvious fault...

        here is fairly identical conditions and situation to what snapped my VG.. this is taken from 1km away on my phone with no zoom.. notice the thickness of the lip on the doggy door in the top pic.. there is a shallow ledge under that too... my VG got karate chopped by that... it had copped similar AND A LOT WORSE countless times over 6mths.. it had filled with a bucket full (approx amount) of water that i didnt finish draining out which had turned to mold...(cool to see in there) ... still it kept trucking...just like all my rapidfires... after i came in, a few P/U'S including one redwood stringered sunset gun snapped too...

        http://instagram.com/p/eagknJBIVE/

        p.s. if anyone has been surfing IN EARNEST for decades, they would of broken many, many boards...i have, and so has everyone i've ever come across who, regardless of ability, (i have none..!!) gives it a red hot go.. without breaking countless boards in many varied conditions, it would be hard to form an opinion on a particular brand or build tech based on 1 or 2 breaks...............

        p.p.s. remember, there is new tech coming soon so those with all the knowledge can start picking that apart next... :)
        Last edited by core personal training; 11-08-2013, 06:46 PM.

        Comment


        • #19
          It's the design of the boards, not the tech that is the 'flaw' in them snapping. It's not like the RF is getting a bad rap in the other designs. However. Here are boards that are real fast. They are cutting edge design. They are super responsive. They are very very very light. A Formula 1 car crashes just about every race, it totally falls apart, and it's not something that gets put back together too cheaply. I'd still love to have a run in one, and would feel safer in it than my Forester. We all knew we were buying an F1. I'm sure I'm not the only one who accepted the risks. It goes faster, therefore there is a higher impact force when you hit things. Or things hit you. And to Core's / Chris's point on percentage of breakages - we have what 10- 20 - 30 reports of snapped boards vs how many sales world wide. If you think of your week at work you rarely get told when you are doing a good job, but EVERYONE lets you know each time you stuff up. So Smile and enjoy your Vanguard while it lasts. Somewhere in the world a pro surfer is breaking their board right now. And now. And now. (Naturally I have no background in physics, engineering or statistics to back up anything I have written. But I am smiling when I surf)

          Comment


          • #20
            I agree with Sarge. Dont take it personal .This board has given me the opportunity to raise my crappy level to points in a wave I could have never gotten to.But the board is weak.Was I willing to pay 600e for a weak board? Dont think so..was it worth it,YES.
            Getting this boards in the canaries wasn't possible before Firewire came into play so I am grateful for that.
            Core ,you keep on stating that the waves we where surfing weren't as weak or small as we say,ok I have no way to prove you wrong.And the funny thing is that my VG survived massive wipeouts the days before it broke,but the way it finally ended was not normal.And it was a crappy white water, waist high wave, so maybe its just the design that has a flaw.
            I can't wait for it to come in bamboo(FST I´ve already bought the v4) and get the VG again,it will go mental.

            Comment


            • #21
              surfnomada said, "my VG survived massive wipeouts the days before it broke,but the way it finally ended was not normal.And it was a crappy white water, waist high wave, so maybe its just the design that has a flaw" the point is, it was more likely the "massive wipeouts" just prior...this is what i have repeated, and that a small wave is all that's needed, not that your waves weren't small .... no disrespect to you, but the "it happened in a small wave" quote is a bit of a running joke in the trade.... your loss in not a joke....you payed hard earned money for something, and now you dont have it... but, the very common misconception of how it happened being uttered by thousands who have not broken enough boards to know better, is a catch-cry among shapers and repairers.... the problem with people who don't know better attributing it to a flaw in the board (you yourself may have an individual flawed board, i don't know) is that we end up with comments like " they should be more responsible with the final client".. a lot of people see that, and many may not have the experience to know that you broke your board while surfing, and that firewire are indeed a responsible company.. in fact the only board company who has ever stood behind their product in the same professional manner that other more mainstream industries do... i'm not singling you out for making unqualified statements that can harm a respectable company.. others here have done it too...

              "you keep on stating that the waves we where surfing weren't as weak or small as we say" no, i never said your final wave wasn't small, again, the point was that you don't need a big wave... particularly if you have had big wipeouts previously....

              and again....hopefully for the last time.... if the board tech or design was "weak", why are the vast majority still shredding.. long past the used by date of other manufacturers boards??.. WHY ISN'T STU KENNEDY BREAKING A VG EVERY THIRD WAVE????

              i'm tired of being the voice of reason now, some people will always take the knee jerk response... or ride along with it... its just a shame that then besmirches the ONLY board maker who has EVER bothered to improve things, to the standard taken for granted in any other consumer market...

              now i'm off to hang my UN-faulty, used and abused, and dead Vanguard on the "magic board wall" and replay some mind-blowing sequences in my mind...

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by core personal training View Post
                surfnomada said, "my VG survived massive wipeouts the days before it broke,but the way it finally ended was not normal.And it was a crappy white water, waist high wave, so maybe its just the design that has a flaw" the point is, it was more likely the "massive wipeouts" just prior...this is what i have repeated, and that a small wave is all that's needed, not that your waves weren't small .... no disrespect to you, but the "it happened in a small wave" quote is a bit of a running joke in the trade.... your loss in not a joke....you payed hard earned money for something, and now you dont have it... but, the very common misconception of how it happened being uttered by thousands who have not broken enough boards to know better, is a catch-cry among shapers and repairers.... the problem with people who don't know better attributing it to a flaw in the board (you yourself may have an individual flawed board, i don't know) is that we end up with comments like " they should be more responsible with the final client".. a lot of people see that, and many may not have the experience to know that you broke your board while surfing, and that firewire are indeed a responsible company.. in fact the only board company who has ever stood behind their product in the same professional manner that other more mainstream industries do... i'm not singling you out for making unqualified statements that can harm a respectable company.. others here have done it too...

                "you keep on stating that the waves we where surfing weren't as weak or small as we say" no, i never said your final wave wasn't small, again, the point was that you don't need a big wave... particularly if you have had big wipeouts previously....

                and again....hopefully for the last time.... if the board tech or design was "weak", why are the vast majority still shredding.. long past the used by date of other manufacturers boards??.. WHY ISN'T STU KENNEDY BREAKING A VG EVERY THIRD WAVE????

                i'm tired of being the voice of reason now, some people will always take the knee jerk response... or ride along with it... its just a shame that then besmirches the ONLY board maker who has EVER bothered to improve things, to the standard taken for granted in any other consumer market...

                now i'm off to hang my UN-faulty, used and abused, and dead Vanguard on the "magic board wall" and replay some mind-blowing sequences in my mind...
                like

                Comment


                • #23
                  Hey Core, don't take it so personally, not as though you are a shareholder or anything like that.

                  I may dislike the Rapidfire but remain committed to Firewire boards and intend to buy V4 in FST the moment they come out. In fact, I would predict that my future 2 board quiver would be the Nano and V4, both in FST. A 3 board quiver would include the VG to take the slack between the other 2.

                  I cop a fair amount of shit from my mates in regard to my rapidfire boards. They invite me to card nights and insist I bring my rapidfire as they reckon it makes the best cardtable. "Like a good cardtable, you know its going to fold when you least expect it." (Their quote, not mine)
                  But they can pass comment because they have broken many boards themselves, like you. I have been out there when they have so I do know what it takes. But Alas, I have only broken 2 so I can't say I have a big dick yet.

                  Apologies Core, you had that one coming!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Well without good information, on failure rates of all types of boards of all types of construction, it's pretty hard to make statistically sound comparisons on the durability front. All we have is some anecdotal data and it is dangerous to draw too many inferences. Unfortunately markets rarely operate with complete information available, in a perfect world...some day never. Nevertheless, I can guarantee my new hollow titaniam alloy/kevlar sandwich composite constructed boards "using nanotechnology" will withstand grenade blasts and are perfect for surfing in militarized zones (especially with Ride of the Valkyrie playing from choppers overhead).

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Hey Core...You keep touting the strength and durabilty of these boards and seem to think that all the posts submitted by other users are a bunch of "punters", "that don't know any better" and that the boards broke as a result of previous wipeouts. Forgive me for being a little insulted. I can honestly tell you that you are not "the voice of reason" here.

                      I really love the wave riding performance of my Vanguard and I do think that Firewire makes a great product. I live just down the street from Firewires Carsbad office and nothing makes me happier than to see a local company making a great product and being successful with it. However, within this forum there is common thread amongst the posts and that is the Vaguards are snapping/buckling on a regular basis. The pictures in these posts show the boards breaking in the same way and the same place as mine. I do not see the same issue with any of the other Firewire products. What I see is a trend with boards breaking. Do you not see this?


                      I surf in San Diego, which has fairly mellow surf compared to many other areas of the world. I'm 48 years old. I'm not a punter and I have not had any massive wipe outs with this board. I'm not a clod or a kook. I consider myself a competant and mature surfer and I do not abuse my boards. Yet the VG still buckled in small surf.


                      I'm not looking for a hand out or a freebie. I see an issue that I think needs to be addressed. There are probably a lot other surfers out that have experienced this issue with their VG's and have not posted anything on line. I would think they are probably really bummed after spending good money on something they hoped would last a long time. As customers of Firewire we are their bottom line. We make the paychecks possible for every one at this business possible. This includes everyone from the guy that cleans the office at night all the way up to the CEO. I've been successful in my business for a long time. What I do know is that it is really hard to get a new customer (especially in this economy) and it's really easy to lose a customer that has plenty of other options on where to spend his/her hard earned money.


                      The crew over at Firewire have created something unique and respected in the surfing world. I don't think that it is too much to ask for them to acknowledge the issues raised by their customers and investigate what's happening to these boards and hopefully make some changes and improvements to future boards. It's just good business sense.

                      A VG in one of the other technologies would be a welcome addition.


                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Well written post by Knottwhat I thought. Would sum up most of our feelings regarding the situation.

                        Took my creased V4 into my regular Firewire dealer/repairer to get patched and the conversation went like this-:

                        "Yeah we're getting a lot of these back" (Bit of a smirk on his face)
                        "V4?
                        "And the Vanguards. Look it'll be $200 for the repair but....wait for FST"
                        "They come out this month?"
                        "Don't hold your breath. Yeah, it'll repair ok but look it'll probably snap again, in front or further back. Just the way they are. You're better off putting that $200 toward the FST"
                        "So put this one in the bin?"
                        "Yeah"

                        They had a new V4 same size hanging there but there was no sales pitch to get a new one. He knew the situation of what they were like and I buy all my boards there.

                        So off I went considering that $200. Not that the money was the issue but instead, got myself geared up and over a blown out surf weekend patched the young lady up with 2 layer 4 oz mat and what was touted as clear epoxy.
                        The finish was nearly pro. Obviously took longer than a pro with a lot of hand sanding but it feathered well and apart from a faint yellow tint in the epoxy was perfect. Hate to have got the standard epoxy...
                        Looks like some artwork will have to cover the color. A week or 2 to harden and she will be back in the water. Wondering how much performance hit there will be and hope it will last till the FST. Missed the board whilst she was out of action. Filled in with the PN and Activator but not the same. Not even close.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Since I started this topic I think is fair to say that my 5´6 VG still rips(her not me, cuz everything that you can see in this video is on the board).It still goes insane, and although after lots of minor rears and pressure dings looks quite destroyed but is nevertheless the best board I-ve had so far.
                          I am waiting for a V4 FST to arrive in a couple of weeks and another VG cuz the worse part of all this is to return to a normal board every time my VG hits the repair shop.

                          http://vimeo.com/82824098

                          Happy new year to all.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            And snapped again..
                            As predicted by the shaper who repaired it my VG hash´t last long.
                            It really bothers me cuz I haven't had more than 5 surfs in a row with it.
                            As yo can see in the picture this time it broke from above.THe shaper recommendation again is not to repair it.He said is very likely to break again.
                            He could take a look to the inside of the board and it seems that the carbon bars aren't glued to the foam ..and thats not to good.
                            Anyway I need to have that board.Everytime I am back to a normal board I feel like I am going backwards,but here in the Canary Islands getting a Tomo model,whatever, its become a kind of a joke..
                            V4 should have arrived in january but we are still waiting.VG only comes in RF models and only in even sizes and still it will take two or three months ..
                            Nano is supposed to arrive next month but..
                            I don't get it honestly.

                            By the way I got the potatonator the same day I broke the VG again.It surfs great, almost like the VG but only up to shoulder high ,this from my surfing level point of view .But by no means can be a backboard for the VG.

                            regards

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              My mate's and I have surfed a variety of FW boards over past 7 years. In that time 4 have cracked, snapped in exactly the same spot and that being roughly below the location of the old vents. One snapped after a few weeks the other 3 after about 4 months and always while paddling out ducking under a set. From this it is obvious a flaw in design etc exists and some boards have it. Same with decks I have had some boards decks never change others look like the moon after 6 months. I call it the Friday Arvo board. I hope FW takes all this feedback looks at thier quality control and swallow thier pride and work to eliminate this small problem. It's a punt buying any board.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                So far have snapped one VG duck diving in 4ft surf after having it repaired because it creased turning into the foam. That one is now in the bin.
                                Have just creased my second VG while duck diving again in 3-4 ft surf.
                                All that in a period of 6 months, I am going with the design fault theory. I will get another VG, but i I will not be buying rapidfire tech ever again in any Firewire model.

                                51yrs old, been surfing 34yrs these are the only boards i have ever creased or snapped.

                                Comment


                                • Denchy
                                  Denchy commented
                                  Editing a comment
                                  Hey Gecko
                                  Many of us feel the same pain.
                                  Does it make you feel warm and fuzzy inside that all the money you blew on the broken boards paid for the R&D for the new LFT?
                                  Appears they knew the tech wasn't working after the big board test in Surfing Life over 12 months ago when the VG self destructed on its maiden show case to the world, as noted by Tommo himself.
                                  A few of the early failures were replaced by the company but probably soon become obvious that they couldn't afford to keep up that process. The solution? Shut up shop and post no comments about it whilst they worked a solution. Not a great business model and one that I do not run my business too.
                                  So its FST or nothing in this household from here on in.

                                • Surfnomada
                                  Surfnomada commented
                                  Editing a comment
                                  So is it the RF in VG or just the RF?I creased my brand new Potatonator yesterday .It hit me in the jwˇaw and made a 4 in dent in the rail.
                                  It makes one to be suspicious of the whole project.
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