Mcruz, i'm exactly the same weight/height (nearly age) and only ride the 5'6 spitfire. 90% of the time where i surf it's waist-headhigh and whether at my own break or somewhere else with 50 guys out, i know i'm going to catch waves and not look like a goof with this at hand.

The spits will go in bigger stuff too but that's a bit like playing a round of golf with only a 9 iron, everything has its limits, a simple fin change though can keep you going, i think Timmy Reyes changes to tri when there's a bit more juice, you don't really need all that speed a quad offers in bigger stuff. If you're lean build like me then you'll find the 5'8 too much, if you were 6ft '1" or something then maybe a better suit.

Where i'm struggling is to find the perfect step up that doesn't feel too long or won't be usable on smaller sucky days... bearing in mind i only like small boards now i think the only option here is a custom order, something like a 5'8/5'9 alternator, for the moment i have a 5'7 PU Sub Scorcher, little bit more curve and less rail so that will do the same as the Spit but maybe a bit more when its small and racy. There's another option for you, 5'8 lost sub in FW tech. Think you'll enjoy a spitfire more though!

Good hunting amigo!

Yeah i bet...like a good woman...now there's some other guy getting his fun on yer girl :)

Just to chip in on this thread...I've been riding a 5'6 Spit for over a year now, great board and couldn't fault it one bit. However; when the waves have a little more juice (not necessary size) i feel like there's a lot of rail and tail in the wave that kind of makes the board hold back a bit, i'm still searching for that magic board to do nearly everything and as my wave range is limited to where i live, i think this 1 board option is possible.

So after reading everything about the Sub Scorcher, i still think this board is my small wave surfing destiny. PRJ cemented that in my head too with his none but positive reviews of being his 1 board pony some time back.

So you don't think i'm a FW traitor, over the past year I had to sell 4 FW boards due to not getting on with them and lost a lot of money because of it, no ones fault, just the way of trail and error. (south coast UK demo centre please) Because we're talking £600 for a new sub i didn't want to get another purchase wrong, i did until recently have a bargain new PU 5'7 x 19 3/4 x 2 5/16 sub, overall looked great but man did that board have some float to it, way more than my 5'6 spit which surprised me, so sold it and lost no money. So with my continuation of looking for the 1 board all rounder for waist to head high, i managed to get another new bargain sub, this time only 19 1/4 wide. Yet to try but looks like it will suit my size and float better, 28 l is on the board so who knows.

If all goes well this year with it i will likely partake in a 5'8 FW sub for Autumn. The only thing i'd like to know is what differences does the FW have over the PU (maybe best pointed to Matt Biolos's blog) To me the FW has a bit more width up front and no 'v' in the tail, but would i find the two any different in that there's only a 1" in length?

Hey Bergie, you're a little shorter than me but weigh the same, do you not think you would ride the 5'10 MB with a 5/4 wettie. How do you find the float on that one as you ride pretty much the same boards as me but the MB has a bit less float than the others?

I looked at the MB thick, and although the right liters, there's no may my puny legs were going to bury those rails so was thinking of the thin version. I tried the 5'11 HR but it felt like a big wave gun compared to the 5'6 spitfire i have.

I'm thinking less is more with this board and probably better to have it under volume than over?

Making to many errors with FW's at the moment but want something comfortable in the bigger stuff, the sort of board you know you can grab and feel confident on.

yeah it sure does look nice, sort of thing you end up with if you customised a dominator as a stepup. like phil says, similar to the mini diver but with the width middle back.

Scott, if you ain't already, ride it as a thruster for a while and once you get use to the board get a decent set of quad fins. For your weight something like the Mayhems or try a PC7/PC3 combo. Ditch the stretch SF4's basically they're too flexy in the tip for a big guy.

I second the take off speed on the spit, if it's a bit racey i have to try and get to my feet a lot quicker than usual as the board is already in the vital part of the wave, i'm usually left behind in pigdog stance...its deepest winter though so that's allowed now and then!

oh and just to add i caught waves really easily on the 5'11, it just went all a big wrong after that, just didn't feel right...too long for my height and weight.

hey canario, the tail on the 5'11 actually felt quite skinny to me but that's probably cause i was too used to the 16'' tail on the spit. don't think that will cause you any concerns on the 6'3.

murphys law that is!

Until i build my wind tunnel its a game of discovery!

That's small to medium weight, not height as in Verne Troyer or Nick Nack from 007.

For sure, i think Bruce Mckee is a advocate of 50/50 rears, as well as SF4's i think the SA1/2's are 50/50 too. I aint that good to probably notice but buying the GX's was the cheapest option and very similar some of the rear future quad sets for small to medium surfers.

Probably doesn't help much but at 70 kg the 5'11 HZ was too long and buoyant for me, could have done with a 5'9 for my weight but made a snap decision and got it wrong...lost about £200 for the sake of it too!

Think the SF4 rear is very similar to the GX except it has a 50/50 foil and a bit more tip whereas the GX is a flat sided mini M3. Will be interesting to see if that combo works in both small and large waves as i'd appreciate more speed out of turns when its sloppy, yet control when punchy.

Must be cross-off and pumping in Cornwall?

Just ordered some GX fins, they're about 98mm x 100mm - read on Swaylocks that these and K2.1's in the front had better drive and performance than the SF4's...Ideally i like a set of the Bruce Irons kinetic quads, but £100 is going break me straight after Christmas...i'll revert in a couple of week to how this goes, will also try M5's in the front too, might be a budget buster for those that want to try a quad without the expense? I've yet to find someone that rates the SF4's as an all rounder...imagine the Performance Core version works better, again £80-£90 though.

We got some new swell coming this weekend so i'll have a play, will make some visits tonight and get a fin collection to take to the beach, might have to take a electric ratchet tool for quick changes!

Cheers.

So am i guessing on quads that the front fins give you the speed and drive and the rears are there for extra hold, i not a advocate of quads so my experience is limited, just want to try the right set for the right board, no test centres down my way so its buy and try then hope for the best...

Thanks for the offer but i don't have any rears small enough, just some K2.1's and FG5's, gonna see if i can borrow some stretch quads and see what that goes like, if not i might have to try something like the K2.1's in the front and buy some Q1's for the rear, think that's similar to Slater's set except i'll be running the budget version...plastic fantastic!

Ideally i want more drive and hold, like you say i feel like i'm riding a wild horse with the K2.1's maybe the tail area is too wide for an upright fin like that, i'm prepared to switch to a quad but want something reliable for my weight, Rustys and SA's are probably too big, shame they don't do the Rasta's in FCS as they look sweet!

Hey PRJ, have posted a reply on the Spitfire tab as others maybe interested.
Cheers.

Hi Chris, yep the spitfire is very easy board to just paddle out on and and go surf. Over the past 16 months of having it, my surfing has completely changed, not lazy but to milk more out of whats on offer, i actually want to go and surf lefts too (backhand) as it holds in so well, maybe just best to stick with what works? Switching to a performance board now and then maybe be the go but i'd get frustrated if i lost out on waves because of it, and frustrated if i never used it...I also saw a picture of Timmy Reyes getting barreled at backdoor on his, so i'll just zip it!

Any recommendations as to what fcs fins may improve performance and whether a quad setup would go better in steeper waves?

Cheers.

Wow you've built up some collection there now Prj...

I like the ethics of the sub and the chubby cheddar, but both seem too have too much in the nose just up from the centre point, i tend to surf of my back foot so prefer more in the tail and less up front, seems a custom is the only way to get that and the alternator is about the flattest performance board FW do that i'm aware of.

Yeah the FW 5'10 Sub has a lot of foam in it, can see why you went for the 5'8.
How long you gotta wait till the Drivers come in, Autumn?

They're shaped buy Brian Bulkley so imagine like most of the lost boards in the UK they were done in spring this year while he was in Cornwall. I've had one of his team boards before and it held up fine. As long as it last till April i'll be happy.

If it works out then i'll get the firewire model, just a bit dubious of its capabilities as most vids on youtube don't show guys in anything bigger than chest high. If i don't like it, it goes back on ebay at no loss. (as long as you don't tell all your mates what you think about them)

I purchased a new 5'7 sub scorcher - its a poly but i can't fork out £600 on a Firewire one till i know if its for me.
Did you see all those lost boards come up on ebay this week PRJ, i got two new 5'7 subs for £550. one is 19 1/4 wide and the other 19 3/4, can't argue at that price. My mate is having the thinner one as he couldn't wait for the 5'8 minidriver. If i get on with mine this winter then i'll probably get the FW 5'8 for spring as that will have the added durability that polyester boards don't have.

Sorry to talk about this on the Razor page but the razor didn't work for me so looking for alternatives in a round about way...and i'm still keeping my trusty spitfire whatever!

Hey Prj, think you'd be surprised with the float that the 5'11 RZ has, too much for me at 68kg. Like you i'm looking for a perfect small wave board that will work in waist to overhead. I'm still keen on the 5'8 Sub but having too much fun on the spitfire to risk it. Don't think i will ever go bigger than 5'9 from now on.

...At your service!

Well Delmar i've not ridden any other board apart from my 5'6 spitfire for the last year, for me the size works perfect, I'm 5'9 and currently 65 kg. I don't think there's any doubt that the same size board is too big for you, i have a friend 20 years younger and he rides the 5'4 at the same weight as me, but if i were that age i would probably do the same. If i thought 5 years ago i would be on a 5'6 after riding 6'0's all the time...well FW make anything possible. Go for the smaller board, as with anything in life it may feel weird at first but you'll just adapt. It will cover you from knee to head high.

Have a look at this video of NOAH ERICKSON HERE on the 5'4 - a good insight of the boards performance!

Baker.

Oh and for fins there's a guy on ebay in the us selling the new k2.1 and k3 green-flex fins for about 34 quid. Only took 6 days to get mine!

Yeah ride it as a thruster for a while and sus it out. When you've tried it out in all conditions then maybe try as a quad for speed in the smaller stuff. Go with what feels right, I only tried mine as a quad after a year but i'd always feel safer with 3 fins.

Sam lam is a big guy and rides the dom in a 5'8. I've really got used to small boards and actually prefer having a smaller board in bigger waves. The spit is good as long as the peak is pealing not throwing. Although when its small and sucky its fun to be on. I might be trying a 5'8 sub next as I thing it night have a bit more speed than the spit. I will keep the old faithfull though still just in case it doesn't work out!

6'1 hellrazor would be too much board for you. I would say the way this year is panning out with small and lacking swell in for the spit

5'8 Spitfire or 5'10 Sub scorcher. Both would work well although i'd say the Spitfire has had more thought put into it to make it work in all conditions, personal choice really.

Go into DTL and feel them up...usually the best way to decide.

He used to ride thumb tails on his Pattersons, maybe nev did him some customs? I must say after watching a load of vids yesterday, Timmy works those Firewires better than anyone else!

Almighty whitey...sounds like a plan!

Spitfire all the way as a main or 1 board quiver, if you're looking for 2 then maybe a Dom and a Hellfire, but why have two boards when 1 will do the job of both!

Waist high or over head, works in all situations for me. Just change the fins...as you surf bigger go bigger!

oh and just to add about the mini driver, looks a great board but in the 15-20 years i've been surfing i never got on with round or pin tails once...wierd but it's just one of those things...my mate is getting the 5'8 though.

Yeah see what you mean Prj, i put the two foils together in PS and the sub has just a little more flick in the nose and quite a bit more in the tail compared to the spitfire (that tail rocker might actually help a bit in bigger waves).

I might opt for this instead but actually keep the spit as well for summer waves...without doing trips away now both these small boards will handle the average waist to head+ that the UK dishes up over the year. If i lived in Cornwall full time then the hellrazor would get used over the spit quite a lot but we're talking 5 trips a year where it might be head and a half high.

Really liked the feel of the 5'8 sub in DTL though - they have one in stock so might pick it up next month!

Having ridden both do you think the sub or the spit has more nose rocker, I don't have an issue with what the spit has just a tad short for bigger waves.

PRJ - coming in at the end of this thread...how do you think the Sub would go as a 1 board deal.

I don't really want to be taking two boards to the beach each time but i imagine the 5'8 sub being a little thinner/little longer has more versatility than a 5'6 spitfire. Looking at surfing waist to headhigh (just over) both soft and punchy waves, also suitable in winter with a bit more clobber on.

I'm 155lb but think the 5'8 will be ample float for the smaller waves in the summer and ditto for winter when they have a bit more guts.

Does the sub have more nose rocker than the spit, i've found that a pain sometimes too?

Cheers.

Yeah for sure i couldn't think of anything worse that visiting Fistral beach in August!

Delmar, i'm 5'10 and 150lbs and the 5'6 spit paddles like motorboat for me...and i'm 40! Okay so i've been surfing for 20 odd years but i don't think you will have any issues with the 5'4 if that's what you really want.

The main thing is; can you catch waves easily and are you having fun? Don't try and change boards because you think it will help you rip more, you're much more likely to progress better and quicker on something isn't suited to the likes of Gabriel Media. When you get there, then maybe look at changing to a performance model. When i was younger i rode boards that were 6'0 x 17 7/8 x 2, that was what people rode in AUS back then, but i would have caught a lot more waves and probably had more fun on something shorter and wider, unfortunately no boards around like at the time so making up now!

Don't know what fins you use but with your weight maybe try M2's or M3's or like i do M5/GL as a quad. You'll be surprised what the right fins in the right board can do.

If you're looking for something with a bit more whip then maybe have a look at the 5'9 hellrazor, I think if you already have a spit then the hellfires are too similar. That or like prj mentioned the alt in a 5'10. Don't be tempted to go too low on volume else your wave count and enjoyment could suffer. You could also just try a 5'4 spit to liven up things.

Watch out man tourist season starts end of this week...i find they do more damage than rocks!

Matt, there's two shops in the UK at the moment with 5'8 Hellfires in stock - spend the extra £250 and get something that will last you.
You'll appreciate it more and you'll know every knock that comes along was because of a good or bad surf you had, not someone else's.

Looks like water has got to it, mines like that around the nose, if the board is dried out properly its fine, but i learn't that it not the foam so much but the bamboo that sucks the water.

If its cheap and you want it just buy it, then later drill a couple of 5mm holes say 5mm deep in that dark area and let it sit in the sun for a couple of days, patch up them rail ding's too. Wouldn't pay more that £300 for it though.

Maybe i should stop surfing the shorebreak and let the spongers have some waves!

Maybe have a look at the PN in a 6'2 - friend of mine same weight and height as you has just ordered one as his small wave machine, his other board is a 6'5 EF if that gives you any idea. I think that and your 6'6 hellfire would cover you all round. Depends on how many boards you want in your quiver?

PRJ - how's the nose on your Spit, mine seems very thin on resin, i've have to repair it about 3 or 4 times now.

I found some 2 part epoxy glue in the end and mixed it up with a bit of q-cell, bunged up the hole a treat, sanded it back and will get the local boat guys to put a nice thick finish coat over the whole lot, the give it a wet and dry. PU resin won't matter for that as no foam is exposed.

UV cure resin is useless in the UK, not seen the sun for a month, they should make something that goes off in wind or rain!

Hey Marc, If i'm allowed to promote people try the guys at boardshop in the UK, email [email protected] - i know they deliver a lot of boards to Europe so should be able to get one to you by courier if they have it in stock, if not i imagine they could get you one by Sept.

Ha! i smashed mine up in exactly the same place this morning but it's about 6 inches long. Think its going to take a week to dry out as i stayed in the water for another hour after doing it.

Norspit, if your not too good with resin and cloth you might be better getting a tube of premixed resin and chopped glass. Just make sure you use epoxy else she'll bubble away. In the UK there's two brands, solarez and suncure, to be honest neither have ever worked for me though so i just use polyester and hope it goes off before melting the blank! (don't try that option if you want to sell your board one day)

Looks a little like a 5'8 Alt or something like that but i imagine is a full custom. She surf way more fluid on a FW than she and Stef Gillmore do on the DHD's

I thought I was the only one that had to cover their tracks!

Benny, how far up the great England/France divide are you?

I play it this way...

Aldi white wine £2.99, couple of bottles a week with the missus £6
OR
Asda aston manor cider £1.49, couple of bottles a week with the missus £3

Firewire surfboard £500...price doesn't come in to it, keep the tech and tail pad the same, missus doesn't know any better and still gets some booze each week!

Oh okay, i thought there was more to it.

Yeah i can't see the CBD being an issue here, i guess those boards would come from the same place? just whether people can wait the extra time it takes to produce them.

How did you get the CBD Taj, i was told customs weren't possible in the UK?

Yeah i guess you have the Taj so that's your good day board, soft and big Mini driver, Pot and Spit anything else.
I'm down your way again in Sept so grab a go on her if your about Porthmeor or Godrevy!

Yeah i get that, funny how every time you go to spend money on something it's comparable with a surfing item. I bought my hellrazor instead of fixing my car, the pay out with that is i have to cycle 150 miles a week...i live 200 yards from the beach so no big deal. Parents cars drive better anyway!

Sounds like there's too much money flying around down west, my fin budget is usually plastic fantastic all the way!

PC5 and K3 overlay comparison. To be precise the K3 has a little less in the trailing edge, but that's about it.
I found the black K3's very stiff too, would probably recommend the white plastic as i imagine they have a bit of twang out of turns.

Attachment

Ben i think he uses them as thrusters. Don't get too excited about buying K3's though as they are pretty much identical to the M5/PC5 but without the inside foil. I learn't the hard way!

Probably heading up this way, i heard Mark Price is in the UK at the moment.

Yeah Matt, Deffo a 5'6 as i measured it while i had it, the only logical thing i could put it down to was maybe the tech, the Dom was a FST whereas the Spit i now have is a RF. Don't know whether the balsa rails and different core gave the Dom more float, visually i think the spit looks a lot thinner in the nose (as in profile not width).

We need a demo centre in the UK, i think people could get dialled in the right board a lot easier then.

I generally use PC5's as a thruster but found it lacked speed under chest high so tried the M5/GL set up which still feels lose without feeling like a train on tracks.

Friend of mine who's 15 stone used MRTFX with GLs in the back, he says it goes good on his 6'5 El Fuego. I went off his recommendation but sized it down a bit for my child like build.

Hard to tell as the measurement is taken from the blank not the finished item, bit like measuring the honeycomb in a Malteaser.

I prefer the Rapid Fires simply for the lightness, you can instantly feel it under arm, same with the 5'11 Hellrazor i'm getting Thursday (I'm near the factory so have that option) a friend had the 6'4 model and it still weighed nothing.

I have found it ding's a lot easier but then i surf a part shingle/sand break, i guess that's the exchange for a light board.

White RF sounds good as long as its a natural composite like bamboo.

Ditto on the Spit, i'm 40, 5'9, weigh about 67kg. I wouldn't ride anything else but my 5'6 in the small stuff, I'm actually a bit reluctant to buy a big brother to go with it but i feel i'm a little under-gunned in bigger waves.

Coming from someone that dislike quads, i found M5/GL works pretty good (maybe only for a light weight surfer though)

Yep your right, just seen the 2 1/4 so the CBD has the wrong info then?

Don't know if you've tried a Dom in the same size as the Spit but the float is completely different, i'd say at least a litre based on the 5'6. I actually found the 5'6 Dom a little awkward to duck dive even when i weighed in at 70kg.

I guess you have to go with what feels right, lot of cash though if you get it wrong.

Thanks guys and don't sweat the small stuff. It was on some sites in AUS at 26.9l too.

Luckily i'm 30 mins from the FW factory and they had out the 5'10 Bourez and the 5'11 HellRazor for me. Gotta say for a step up from the 5'6 Spitty it was the Razor all the way, nice rail curve and still a bit of foam in the tail - 27.3L i can work with so she's mine!

See you in the Razor forum from now on!

Its slightly annoying as the 6'0 without doubt has way too much volume for me and I only want a 5'10 really. Think after riding the spit at 28.3 the alt at 25.9 is going to be a bit of hard work. Might have to check out the 5'11 hellrazor or in back to the original plan of the stealth!

I'm still being told the 5'10 Alt is 25.9l? - Hard to know when the FW site says the same...Chris, got one of those near you?

Buzzy, did you go on the CBD page - comes up with 36.7 litres for those exact dimensions?

5'10 Alternator on its way, just gotta wait till Sept.
Hopefully between this and my beloved 5'6 Spit i should have all my bases covered!

I nearly went for the 5'11 hellrazor but i think the rails, nose and tail are a lot more refined and the rocker is slight more curved.

Yeah it will mainly be a Cornwall/Devon board and good days back home (chest to over head type stuff)

Volumes are confusing these days as poly boards just came as a size and if it worked, it worked, ask a shaper 5 years ago what the float was and i imagine you'd get a reply of...err good!

Chris, can you ask your web guys to update the site to show the correct volume. (if possible)

Thanks.

Thanks prj - after much enthusiasm for the 5'10 stealth i though the rocker might be a little flat as a step up, my other reasoning is owning a 5'6 with 28l float is fine being so short and made to catch small waves but do i really want to ride a 5'10 the same...the more i think about it maybe not.

I'm only 5'9 and 65-68kg (fluctuates with my 125 mile a week commute by bike) but what do you reckon, I've not seen a alternator in person but heard they have quite a bit under the belly and a reasonably full rail. My 5'10 Futura at 26'7 was more than enough float.

prj - took a gander at the mini online and it looks fun, I guess you're slightly taller and heavier than me so the 5'10 will suit you good. I just hope i'm not going too big with the 5'10 stealth but I think the refined profile makes it right, just seems weird to jump 4 inches longer.

surfbum - let me know how the 5'10 goes for your weight, i'm 68kg and 5'9 and also looking at the 5'10 in a few months in FST (none in the UK at the moment) Just don't want to go too big but i'm sure looking at the dims etc its perfect.

Thanks.

Bang i'm done...looks like a 5'10 stealth is the go! 5'10 x 19 x 2 1/4 = 27.8 litres. Search over!

Just to add i really liked the look of the 5'8 sub scorcher, just don't know it its too similar to the Spit and wont accomplish anything when the surf gets bigger. I just felt a bit like a pea in a drum on my 5'6 when the surf got overhead the other day!

Overall 5'9 is as big as i would like to go...

Prj - Looked at the Activator in DTL Hayle but very similar to the Dom for me, too much in the nose and tail still.
Buzzy - Agree with you on the Futura, the 5'10 i had, although wide at 19 1/2 it was very thin in the nose and tail and needed at least head high to get it going properly.

I'd like an alternator at 5'9 or 5'10 - 19 1/4 - 2 1/4 = 28 litres float. I think the only way to get a board like that is CBD or go less on width and get a Michel Borez model but he's a heavy guy and i'm only 68kg?

I'll keep looking!

Thanks for the update chris, think this may be too refined for my needs. Looking for similar float and rocker line as the spit but with a bit more length.

Love it, bit of self styling! Yep i'm overlooking the beach at meor so hopefully in the morning the sea will create some magic, then i'm back home south for some wind swell sat/sun.

pjr noticed you got a 5'7 spit, you get that as a custom or you done a wacky repair to the nose? Also when's this swell coming its still looking pretty flat here in st ives (on hols)

Cliff. I'm 5'9 and 70kg and I use my 5'6 spit in everything from waist to headhigh. Probably the most versatile board firewire have made. You might have to get some larger fins though, but see how it goes with g3's first. Rock on man!

Cool thanks, my mate just put his shoulder out so i'll see if he'll lend me his for when this new swell comes in next week.

Prj - have you tried K3's in a spit yet, i nearly bought some of the new eco green ones the other day but didn't think they would make much difference to a set of G5's?

I get you Chris, and i'm sure in an ideal world i think the answer is something like a 5'8 hellfire...i'm just having so much fun on the spitfire i don't know if i would use it that much. Maybe i was just having an off day, it happens!

I vouch for backside, think that drop rail keeps it held in there. I've only ever use it as a thruster, will maybe try as a quad in the summers when the waves go a bit slop, something like a G5/GX setup.

With you 2ft dude, took my 5'6 out in head high croyde couple of weeks back, went like a dream on the lefts, wind was stopping me getting in the right spot on the rights unless some smaller ones came through but she held in there!

Its my only board so no other choices really.

hworks50 - to me the spitfire surfs like a regular short board, I've not had any issues with it feeing slippy or anything (although i do pull off a tail first drop now and again) also depending on what the waves are like i surf off the tail and sometimes further forward, what ever keeps it going.

I'm 40, 5'9 and ride the 5'6 - like i said in an earlier in this post i'm still getting use to the size but this is my only board now so all my concentration is on this model. If i had a choice i would get a 5'7 at the same dims or a 5'8 less a 1/4" but that's messing with the design the FW guys have refined and at present i'm happy with what i got and for where i surf this board is spot on.

IMO, whether off the same template or not the Dominator and Spitfire feel worlds apart to me...

sorry thqt was for hworks50 not iggy, but all the same!

iggy, the Domo was okay but felt very flat, caught lots of waves but just didn't wouldn't dig in. the el fuego i tried for10 mins and i new that wasn't the right board for me, way too flat. The spit i was hasent't excited about but tried it and it just worked great what can i say! best board ever!