Hellrazor on my Madagascan trip

[silentp]

Hey core, (im still a bit of a grasshopper when it comes to understanding fins, havent thought about them too much before riding firewires ) I think I understand the way fins work in their relation to size and shape on a board, ie pivot v drive etc, but when you refer to a fin as being too stiff or too much flex, I think what I want to know is what are you feeling underfoot, is it a subtle looseness or stiffness or not that at all....or is it totally subjective? I've surfed my razor with both SA3's and blackstix V2FJC1's and board goes great with either but I think I prefer it with the SA3's but ask me why and I couldn't tell you,it just feels better....especially cutting back with plenty of speed to burn... master core,anyone, enlightenment on this matter would be much appreciated

[core personal training]

sorry for the delay...bookmarked this and forgot it...

the loseness/stiffness of a fin underfoot, among other factors, can be from its size, shape or materials (soft plastic thru to carbon etc)..also the foil has an effect....and there's probably some mysto effect only Nev understands..!!..the two most prominent effects you will notice will be how resistant the fin is to changing its arc through the water and how resistant it is rail to rail...now the hard part is sussing what causes what in any particular board and for a particular rider...trial and error is key here...for instance...in my hellfire, the sa3's are perfect...they become one with the board...they work WITH the board shape, not try to take a different line...am2's try to elongate the arc more that is natural for the board...for my particular style that is........on the other hand, put the sa3s in my flexy and they "bind" it up rail to rail...fine though turns, but too much tip area in transition..(rail to rail).....cant twitch up speed quickly in tight spots....

an example of foil and material stiffness and template is in my MB... ea blackstix are great if i dont need to push hard...(clean smallish bowls)... tight swoop with acceleration from the inside foil and lateral tip flex...pushing hard for real turns and they overflex and bleed off water pressure (jackknife and slow to a standstill nearly)...put the ea techflex in and the stiff material combined with the thick foil make them feel dead for me...throw in a flex pattern in between (honey comb) and the life comes back and they dont over flex....BUT....now i'm dealing with large base and small(ish) tip...great off bottom but too whippy off top...bring out the jc honeycomb....bingo...!!...slightly more tip area to address the top release and a slightly narrower base to keep the overall area similar....

clear as mud..??

[prjwebb]

haha clear as tar i reckon

[savagebee]

Great stuff core. Because you are explaining the subtlety of the variables and how much of a black art deciding on the best fin is. In the end we all need to try different fins before we will know what is right for us and the board. All we can hope from this forum is to get a good starting point and understand the variables and go from there. A lot of this is also personal preference.

[silentp]

Thanks core great stuff, i'm still trying to digest all this and I think its probably easy (in my mind) to confuse things and over analyse. For me personally i'm trying to visualize what the fin is doing to get better understanding, and with so many variables it's a work in progress. Good explanation of what you're feeling underfoot too, that jackknife/standstill thing I've felt before when I had the wrong fins in the MB. cheers

[core personal training]

silent, was it you that tried my old MB.?? cant remember who it was now... so what fins did that in the MB for you..?? for me it was both ea and jc blackstix...

and apologies to deon...his exciting thread on his trip has taken a major detour....!!!

[silentp]

Yeah the one with the shark repel eye was getting around as a demo...as far as the fins go I think I just worked out was happening after rereading your post, the shop threw in a set of composite(plastic?) ea450's when I picked up the board and I thought I'd try it out with them, first surf and in good waves the board just would not respond, trying to generate speed going rail to rail board just felt dead in the water, try to drive through a bottom turn and the jackknife /standstill thing you described is happening...just dug the fins back out and compared to the JC blackstix they are heaps flexy, (is this the water pressure bleed off you describe?)...anyway didn't really have a problem with the blackstix in the MB but bought some SA3's and found the small wave(speed generation) act of the board improved with these so they stayed. anyway thanks again for your input,I'm slowly getting an understanding of this, or am I?! cheers

[core personal training]

yep. i reckon the power you need to push into that board would totally overload the plastics...for me even the blackstix if not being lightfooted...however, i'm now struggling to push hard enough to control the thin MB as i've lost weight (actually i'm kooking on it)... might revisit it with the softer flexing blackstix and see if i get control back.....interesting about the sa3"s....mine live in my hellfire...probably taken root in there...put them in the flexy and they bound it up...the opposite to your experience in the MB...i might wrestle them out of the HF and see if that tip area gives me something to push off without having to push as much rail foam in.....this is what its all about....its best not to categorize fins too much...sometimes they dont behave as you think they will....unless your Nev...the fin whisperer......